In Apr 2016 Sgt. Briggs too I speak well-nigh what it was similar to survive a negotiator working amongst people seconds away from jumping from the Golden Gate Bridge. Sgt. Briggs shared some of his strategies too his struggles working amongst hundreds of people, some of whom jumped too some of whom didn’t. He talked well-nigh getting famous too doing a TED talk. And thence he shared something really personal – the story of how he industrial plant life out that his boy had been thinking of killing himself. Sgt. Briggs provides valuable insight inwards the professional person too personal side of crisis work.
Download MP3 [35:50]
You tin forcefulness out read to a greater extent than well-nigh his story inwards his book, Guardian of the Golden Gate and on his 2014 TED speak "The Bridge Between Suicide too Life."
Transcript
Introduction[Episode 104] In today's episode of the Social Work Podcast I spoke amongst Kevin Briggs, retired Sergent amongst the California Highway Patrol. As component subdivision of his duties patroling Marin County, Sgt. Briggs responded to calls on the Golden Gate Bridge, i of the most lethal suicide spots inwards the world.
In Apr 2016 Sgt. Briggs too I speak well-nigh what it was similar to survive a negotiator working amongst people seconds away from jumping from the Golden Gate Bridge. Sgt. Briggs shared some of his strategies too his struggles working amongst hundreds of people, some of whom jumped too some of whom didn’t. He talked well-nigh getting famous too doing a TED talk. And thence he shared something really personal – the story of how he industrial plant life out that his boy had been thinking of killing himself. Sgt. Briggs provides valuable insight inwards the professional person too personal side of crisis work.
Download MP3 [35:50]
Introduction
[00:03:41]
[00:03:41]
Jonathan Singer: Kevin, give thank y'all you thence much for existence hither on the Social Work Podcast talking amongst us today. Can y'all tell us what it was similar existence on highway patrol?
Kevin Briggs: Yes, genuinely give thank y'all you for having me. Pleasure to create this. Typically, we’ll acquire a call. People volition telephone band inwards on 9-1-1 or there’s some phones on the span that go correct to the Golden Gate Bridge’s sergeant’s office. They have got their ain patrol unit, similar safety guards, too thence they volition at in i lawsuit telephone band us, too nosotros volition respond, or it’s a 9-1-1 call. Sometimes we’ll have got em where the mortal themselves volition survive calling 9-1-1 maxim they demand help. And thence we’ll respond, we’ll acquire the telephone band too leave of absence there. Or only inwards patrolling, nosotros may view someone who looks despondent. Generally, they’re past times themselves; they’re solo, too many times people are on only on opor-garai past times themselves, they’re only out at that spot to pick out pictures, but soundless nosotros desire to honor out, nosotros desire to construct sure they’re OK. So nosotros only have got a full general conversation amongst them, too if they’re doing OK, thence hey, glad to come across you, inquire them where they’re from, too we’re on our way. But sometimes at that spot are those folks who are despondent too we’ll speak to them for a while. Hopefully nosotros tin forcefulness out acquire them into the parking lot earlier they acquire upwardly to the bridge. But sometimes they’re over that rail too they’re standing on something nosotros telephone band the cord, which is a i-beam over that rail, too that’s when we’ve genuinely got to acquire out materials together too start focusing. Typically if I’m going to survive the i to create this negotiation, talking to this individual, I starting fourth dimension start out preparing my mind, I say a picayune prayer on my agency down, that everything is going to go smoothen for us too for them. And when I acquire there, I’m going to halt a picayune ways away from them, too sort of facial expression over the scene a picayune chip too inquire them, y'all know, tin forcefulness out I come upwardly up at that spot too speak amongst you? And innovate myself; they view I’m wearing a uniform, they know I’m somebody of some sort, but I don’t say the Highway Patrol typically. I say “Hi, I’m Kevin. Can I come upwardly up too speak amongst you?” Empowering them from the really start is very, really of import to me, too I think it is to them also. And also the have on – I facial expression at what they’re wearing. It tin forcefulness out acquire bitterly mutual frigidity on that bridge, specially inwards the summertime months really. June, July, & August tend to survive really foggy on that span thence it tin forcefulness out survive really cold. It could survive noon out too soundless survive miserably cold. You go only a few miles northward too it could survive 85, xc degrees. But only on that bridge, all that weather condition funnels into that. My indicate to this is, if that persons only wearing a t-shirt, or a shirt too non a jacket, thence I desire to survive similar that also. I desire to experience what they’re feeling. I think that’s important. So I won’t have on my jacket, too it volition help, because they’ll view me shivering, too I know they’re shivering, thence I’ll say “Man, it’s cold. Why don’t nosotros acquire out of hither too acquire some hot chocolate or something?” And, y'all know, nosotros start similar that.
[00:06:23]
Jonathan Singer: You’re genuinely taking this thought of connecting amongst that mortal to a bird that I think most people wouldn’t fifty-fifty imagine when working amongst someone inwards crisis. Like you’re literally saying, I’m non going to have on my jacket, I’m non going to survive comfortable thence that they know I’m only a picayune chip closer to where they are.
Kevin Briggs: I think that’s important. I think many times, perhaps these folks have got spoken amongst a lot of people, but those people are ever uncomfortable. They’re behind their desk; they have got their degrees; they have got everything else; they know what’s going on; whereas this mortal is suffering. Well I desire to say, “I’m suffering too.” I’m going to survive out there, I’m only some other Joe similar y'all out here. Let’s view how nosotros tin forcefulness out assist each other out.
[00:07:02]
Jonathan Singer: Can y'all walk us through i of the calls that y'all got?
Kevin Briggs: Absolutely. Shortly earlier I retired, I retired inwards Nov of 2013, on July 22 of that year, nosotros received a telephone band of a man, what nosotros say, over the rail – over the pedestrian rail. He was on that cord, on that I-beam. And I was the supervisor, I responded from the component subdivision downwards to the bridge, too it only thence happened that the officers assigned to go that surface area were busy. They weren’t able to respond correct then. So I was the starting fourth dimension CHP mortal there. And when I got there, at that spot was already a Golden Gate Bridge safety guard at that spot speaking amongst the gentleman over the rail. And that person, his refer was Jason Garber, he was 32 years old, he was from New Jersey, had genuinely flown out to the span 3 times, this existence his 3rd time. From New Bailiwick of Jersey all the agency to San Fransisco, to the Golden Gate Bridge where he wanted to effort suicide. So the particular span officeholder was doing a nifty job. He’s been around for a while. Very empathetic. Very intelligent. Doing a nifty job. So I sort of backed him upwardly a picayune bit, too I would go inwards at nowadays too again, but it turned out Jason, to me, was a really intelligent individual. He was the gentleman over the rail. He had suffered from mental disease for many, many years. And these are the 3 sort of things I view all the time: folks suffering from mental illness, going off of their medication, which he had, too feeling similar they’re a burden to their family, which he felt. Those 3 things I view quite frequently. And that’s what was going on amongst Jason. Jason was non wearing a jacket, thence of course of instruction I wasn’t wearing mine. And this was inwards the like shooting fish in a barrel afternoon, July, too it was getting quite mutual frigidity out, but it wasn’t foggy that hateful solar daytime thence nosotros were really lucky. As nosotros developed this, what I thought, a rapport amongst Jason, he was really articulate inwards his speech. You could tell the homo was educated, he was a poet, a writer, too he was really, genuinely neat to speak to. At i indicate I retrieve the Golden Gate Bridge officeholder telling Jason, “Jason, y'all should survive on this side, talking to folks over the rail.” That’s how intelligent this homo seemed. But he was suffering, too this is what happens to folks, they experience similar they’re stuffed inwards the corner past times themselves too that this is the alone option that they have. So every bit nosotros progressed amongst this, Jason, nosotros view his emotions going upwardly too down, upwardly too down. And every bit negotiators nosotros seek to genuinely stretch the fourth dimension out past times talking amongst these folks, open-ended questions too all these things.
[00:09:30]
Jonathan Singer: And why create y'all stretch the fourth dimension out?
Kevin Briggs: Because many, many times folks are, their levels of emotions are very, really high, too every bit humans nosotros can’t keep that high emotion for a long time, thence nosotros seek to stretch that fourth dimension out. If they volition tell us the story of what’s going on inwards their life, then, boom, it allows for that time, to respite down, those emotions to come upwardly down, letting that to a greater extent than rational thought come upwardly up. And that’s what nosotros seek to do. That’s inwards theory, anyway. And nosotros go by, what I teach, too what I’ve been taught, is the 80/20 principle. If they’re talking, nosotros permit them speak fourscore pct of the time, too nosotros volition speak only twenty pct of the time. And that’s ideal. That’s something that nosotros genuinely seek to stress. And Jason would answer most of our questions. He was only having a really hard time, too he’d had enough. At i point, well-nigh an lx minutes or thence into this, Jason asked us if nosotros knew the story of Pandora’s box, which is really unique, because I’ve never had anyone inquire something similar that out there. And that threw me. And nosotros said yes. But thence Jason had been getting text too telephone calls. He had genuinely thrown out an email, typed an e-mail to his friends to leave of absence well-nigh the fourth dimension he thought he’d survive on the bridge. And that’s just what occurred. So here’s this telephone which he had inwards his lap, too his telephone is ringing too buzzing, doing all that. And he would facial expression at it, never answer it. He would survive happy, thence he would survive sad. Influenza A virus subtype H5N1 tear would come upwardly out. He was going through all these emotions, but he would never answer the phone. But when he asked us well-nigh Pandora’s box, too nosotros said yes. And nosotros know well-nigh Pandora’s box, amongst the box that she opens up, too all these bad things come upwardly out: these sorrows, too plagues, too things. The alone skillful thing inwards that box was hope.
Well, Jason, every bit profound every bit he was, every bit intelligent every bit he was, he says, “When I opened upwardly the box, hope is the greatest evil.” There was no hope for this guy. Hope was, y'all know, only ever out of reach. And that threw me back. I have got never heard that before. That’s how amazing this swain was. So I stepped dorsum a picayune bit, too I’m pondering this, too trying to think, good OK, what tin forcefulness out I say well-nigh this? It genuinely stumped me. And it was distich of minutes, too then, every bit I’m looking at Jason, y'all know, I view i unmarried tear. He had been crying off too on. But at this indicate I view a tear only come upwardly out of his correct eye, too go downwards his cheek, too he was sitting on this I-beam, straddling it. And he only leans to his right, too he’s gone. Falls all the agency downwards to the water. I watched him go, which you’re non supposed to do, but I ever do, because for one, I desire to grade the body. It’s sort of mountainous areas on both sides that come upwardly inwards too funnel the H2O to too fro, amongst the tides too all. And they’re treacherous. We lose bodies quickly. So when these instances occur, nosotros telephone band the Coast Guard, too they come upwardly out, too they seat themselves only a picayune ways due east of the bridge. Most folks go off of the due east side, looking towards the bay too Alcatraz. So they were correct at that spot on the spot. We throw out a marker, a flare marker, which throws upwardly smoke, thence that marks the body. Even though the Coast Guard was correct there, I soundless desire to grade that body. I don’t desire to lose that trunk if possible. It’s really important, y'all know, for the household unit of measurement too the whole bit. So nosotros create that; the Coast Guard picks upwardly the body, too they convey him dorsum to the Coast Guard station. I stride back. I’m amongst the Golden Gate Bridge officer, too we’re sort of stumped on this. I thought nosotros were inwards the middle of this. Now, it tin forcefulness out go bad at whatsoever time, I know this. He knows this. We’ve seen this. But I thought nosotros were inwards the middle of this thing, soundless talking for a while. It genuinely upset us. I mean, it would at the in conclusion indicate of anybody going. But nosotros weren’t laid upwardly for this particular human activity at this time. But every bit we’re standing there, only trying to pick out this all in, too I’m worried well-nigh the officers on both sides because nosotros stopped the pedestrian traffic on the sidewalk of the bridge, thence I desire to construct sure they’re doing OK, a gentleman comes running upwardly too to me, too he goes, “Officer, there’s a trunk inwards the water.” And I was pissed. “What the hell create y'all think I’ve been doing for an hour?” And he goes, “No, some other one.” Now nosotros were inwards the middle of the bridge, the midpoint of the bridge, when this happened, this instance. Up at the northward tower some other gentleman had jumped at only around the same time. So I responded upwardly at that spot on a motorcycle, takes a distich of minutes to acquire there, too span responded also, too they have got those flare markers. And when I acquire at that spot I view the trunk floating inwards the H2O out into the bay. I at in i lawsuit telephone band for the Coast Guard. They can’t respond because they’re busy amongst Jason’s body. So nosotros have got the marking out, y'all view the marking floating out into the bay, addition Jason’s marking which was from midspan, too I took a distich of photos to seek too grade everything. Here’s comes a large container ship, total of containers, too it ran over that body, non to survive found. So when people facial expression upwardly statistics well-nigh the bridge, too they say 35 people died this yr or something, a lot of times that’s non right.
[00:14:28]
And I’m non gonna create anything. I’ll tell them that. I can’t. I would survive lying to them. And I’m non going to lie. If I hope them a steak dinner when they come upwardly dorsum over, boy, I gauge we’re stopping for steak dinners. But to acquire them thinking about, I desire them to think well-nigh what’s going on inwards their life, how it got to that level, too how nosotros tin forcefulness out perhaps plough this around a picayune bit. That at that spot is folks that care, starting amongst me. When I facial expression at them, I create that cursory search type of thing, seeing if there’s whatsoever weapons on them, but thence I’m genuinely only looking at their face. And all I desire them to view is my face. To demo – hither is somebody who cares. It starts amongst me. Now there’s a lot of folks that attention over there, perhaps y'all only haven’t run into them yet. Let’s view if nosotros tin forcefulness out acquire y'all some folks. And that the biggest thing, y'all know, many of these people experience that they’re all lonely too nobody’s going through what they’re going through too that it’s only non going to acquire whatsoever better. Well, I’m hoping it does acquire better. I’m praying it does acquire better. At to the lowest degree let’s have got the chance to create that. You know, unfortunately, a number of people come upwardly up at that spot nether the influence of drugs or alcohol. But I utilization that also.
APA (6th ed) citation for this podcast:
Singer, J. B. (Producer). (2016, June 12). #104 - Guardian of the Golden Gate: Interview amongst Kevin Briggs [Audio Podcast]. Social Work Podcast. Retrieved from /search?q=briggs
[00:14:28]
And I tell them it’s non correct because when a trunk is non discovered, ilke this i that was ran over past times this large ship, it’s non counted. Marin County Coroner, which handles these cases, alone takes a number when they have got a body. So if there’s non a body, there’s non a number. So folks who are like, “Ah, Briggs doesn’t know what he’s talking about”, well, this is why. So inwards that yr that I retired at that spot were unopen to lx folks that nosotros lost off of that bridge. And that’s non fifty-fifty including the folks that nosotros pick out off for mental wellness evaluations. Now this takes a heavy cost on the officers, but I ever tell folks, “Let’s forget that for a minute. What well-nigh the household unit of measurement too friends?” So after this, I go dorsum to the office, too Jason was from New Jersey, similar I said. I desire the household unit of measurement to survive notified. I know inwards my mind, this is Jason Garber. I had his ID. He told me his parent’s name, his telephone number. I had everything well-nigh this guy. So inwards my mind, that’s Jason. But I know the coroner would non survive contacting the household unit of measurement until they had their fingerprints, dental records, whatever they needed to seat him – powerfulness survive a distich of days. I didn’t think that was right. I’m thinking, if that was my picayune boy, I desire to know correct now. So I called upwardly a local police push clit subdivision inwards New Jersey, too this was around 8:30pm inwards the eve pacific time. It’d survive 11:30pm dorsum east. I telephone band the local police push clit subdivision too inquire them, “Can y'all create a notification for me, please?” And nosotros speak for a picayune while, too they go, “Oh yeah, we’ll grip that.” Puts me on hold; comes dorsum inwards a distich of minutes, confirms everything amongst me, the refer too all that, too he goes, “His father’s hither correct at nowadays filing a missing person’s report.” And this goes dorsum to that e-mail that Jason had sent out. They honor out well-nigh that; they go to the police push clit department, the family, because at nowadays they’re going to monastic tell out to facial expression for this kid. So I acquire on the telephone amongst his father, too I was feeling really guilty. In my mind, I’m thinking that he’s mad at me. I failed; I didn’t create the job, but he wasn’t. But he was really stern inwards his voice. His boy had only passed away. What could survive worse than that? Anything that I could think of. And I’m feeling horrible, pretty emotional. I think he realized that, too after a one-half an lx minutes or soundless long nosotros spoke, he tells me, “Now I have got to go tell my wife. When I acquire habitation I’m going to telephone band y'all back.” Pretty strict too stern similar this. I say “Yes sir.” I was supposed to survive going habitation correct when this happened, but who cares? It doesn’t matter. Now nosotros have got this to handle. So I hold off some other one-half lx minutes or so, too he calls me back, too he’s trying to acquire to a greater extent than data out of me, too inquire me “What would nosotros do?” too all this. But it’s only his way, that I industrial plant life out afterwards on. He’s only a stern man, a skillful man, it’s only his way. And I could Mrs. Garber, Jason’s mother, only wailing inwards the background, too it’s only horrible. We tried our best. I wondered what nosotros could have got done different. We permit this happen. These things happen. We know these things are going to hap to us. It doesn’t sit down amongst us whatsoever improve though. So that night, to survive totally honest, it sucked for me. I’m sure it was terrible for the family, but for me, it was bad. I go on replaying it inwards my mind, every bit I create today. What could nosotros create different? What could I have got done different? Maybe nothing. He came out hither 3 times to create this act. Boom. He did it. But I think the empathy… this weighs on you. But that adjacent hateful solar daytime was quite memorable for me because I come upwardly dorsum into work. Jason’s manly mortal bring upwardly said he was going to telephone band too speak amongst me that adjacent day. When I came into work, at that spot was a telephone phone band for me. I’m expecting it’s Jason’s father, too we’re going, “OK, I’m going to have got to relive this thing again. But it’s for the family. You have got to create this. But it’s not. It turns out it’s their household unit of measurement rabbi. And he explains who he is. He had worked amongst police push clit departments before, talking to families well-nigh expiry notifications too things, thence he was aware of how things go, too how officers think somewhat. And I tell him what’s going on, too I retrieve existence pretty emotional on the phone. And he goes, “Kevin. Listen to me. If y'all ever halt feeling the agency that y'all create correct now, acquire the hell out of the business, because you’re no utilization to anybody.” And that helped me. That genuinely did. And that’s pretty much just how he said that.
So nosotros talked for a while, too I think that helped me through this whole thing. But, y'all know, only dealing amongst the family, I genuinely flew out there, I was speaking out at that spot on the East coast, too I had some time. I rented a car, too I went to come across the family. And it was at a memorial for Jason - around a lake that he would run around. So nosotros walked around the late, too I met his household unit of measurement too friends too such. And thence the Garbers invited me to dinner that evening. And of course of instruction I accepted. I thought, “Alright, this volition survive household unit of measurement too friends. Hopefully I tin forcefulness out come across the rabbi.” I thought it’d survive to a greater extent than of a celebration of life. But it turned out to survive non that. It was only Mr. & Mrs. Garber too myself. Ah, this is gonna survive tough. This is gonna survive genuinely tough. I soundless gotta create you. You have got to create it. So I go to the house, too Mrs. Garber doesn’t say really much. She’s cordial, but she only doesn’t say much. Mr. Garber says a whole lot of stuff. And he never in i lawsuit blamed me, he genuinely thanked me for existence there. He says, “I’m glad Jason had y'all there, too the other span officer.” That helped, but Jason, he was a phenomenal person. He showed me lots of Jason’s writings too everything, too drawings, too things Jason has done. He was an amazing individual. He only suffered from mental illness. And I tell folks, no affair who y'all are, if you’re suffering, y'all tin forcefulness out acquire to that point. The highest educated to the lowest educated. Whether you’re a billionaire or have got no money, it doesn’t affair who y'all are. You tin forcefulness out acquire to that point. I’ve seen it. The families suffer. And to this day, it has taken a heavy, heavy cost on Mr. Garber. He no longer works. Basically he’s around that house, looking at Jason’s drawings, his literature, too things that Jason has done. And I tell folks – this is what suicide does to folks. It wrecks families. So if y'all think that your hurting is gone because you’re gone, too you’re non going to survive causing whatsoever to a greater extent than hurting to your family, you’re not. You’re putting to a greater extent than hurting onto your family. (pause) People say the ripple termination of a suicide, it’s not. It’s a tsunami. It devastates families. And that’s how I feel, too that’s genuinely what happens.
So nosotros talked for a while, too I think that helped me through this whole thing. But, y'all know, only dealing amongst the family, I genuinely flew out there, I was speaking out at that spot on the East coast, too I had some time. I rented a car, too I went to come across the family. And it was at a memorial for Jason - around a lake that he would run around. So nosotros walked around the late, too I met his household unit of measurement too friends too such. And thence the Garbers invited me to dinner that evening. And of course of instruction I accepted. I thought, “Alright, this volition survive household unit of measurement too friends. Hopefully I tin forcefulness out come across the rabbi.” I thought it’d survive to a greater extent than of a celebration of life. But it turned out to survive non that. It was only Mr. & Mrs. Garber too myself. Ah, this is gonna survive tough. This is gonna survive genuinely tough. I soundless gotta create you. You have got to create it. So I go to the house, too Mrs. Garber doesn’t say really much. She’s cordial, but she only doesn’t say much. Mr. Garber says a whole lot of stuff. And he never in i lawsuit blamed me, he genuinely thanked me for existence there. He says, “I’m glad Jason had y'all there, too the other span officer.” That helped, but Jason, he was a phenomenal person. He showed me lots of Jason’s writings too everything, too drawings, too things Jason has done. He was an amazing individual. He only suffered from mental illness. And I tell folks, no affair who y'all are, if you’re suffering, y'all tin forcefulness out acquire to that point. The highest educated to the lowest educated. Whether you’re a billionaire or have got no money, it doesn’t affair who y'all are. You tin forcefulness out acquire to that point. I’ve seen it. The families suffer. And to this day, it has taken a heavy, heavy cost on Mr. Garber. He no longer works. Basically he’s around that house, looking at Jason’s drawings, his literature, too things that Jason has done. And I tell folks – this is what suicide does to folks. It wrecks families. So if y'all think that your hurting is gone because you’re gone, too you’re non going to survive causing whatsoever to a greater extent than hurting to your family, you’re not. You’re putting to a greater extent than hurting onto your family. (pause) People say the ripple termination of a suicide, it’s not. It’s a tsunami. It devastates families. And that’s how I feel, too that’s genuinely what happens.
[00:20:51]
Jonathan Singer: So I read inwards your book, Guardian of the Golden Gate, well-nigh how y'all started to acquire media attending every bit termination of your go doing suicide prevention on the bridge, too this led to a TED talk. Can y'all tell us what it was similar to create a TED talk?
Kevin Briggs: Sure. And I retrieve the telephone call. It happened inwards December. I pick out most of Decembers off. I savour Christmas time. Really large fan of that. And I retrieve it was the Yahoo! News segment that genuinely kicked everything off. I received some calls at habitation maxim there’s a lot of people calling inwards because that Yahoo! News segment came out Dec 5th, on my birthday. That’s the alone argue I tin forcefulness out retrieve that. But I retrieve getting lots of calls at habitation maxim there’s a lot of people who desire to view y'all too speak to you. Me? Why? So I halt inwards at go i day, too I take away heed to my messages, too i of them is for a TED talk. And I didn’t genuinely encompass it. I had non watched many TED talks, if any. I didn’t fifty-fifty genuinely know what TED was about. I had heard well-nigh it, but, I tell folks, to survive honest amongst you, I hadn’t genuinely heard of it. So I asked i of my mentors, too some other people, too they were all over me, “You telephone band them dorsum correct now! What create y'all think you’re doing? That’s huge! Call them back!” So I’m like, OK! I telephone band them back, “Hi. This is Kevin Briggs.” We settle up. I said, “Sure, I’d survive happy to create it.” And I had done very, really picayune world speaking, thence this TED speak was i of my starting fourth dimension ones. We do online a distich times amongst the folks. I wrote a speech communication out. I had a picayune assist from a distich of people, too I know what I wanted to convey. But I didn’t know if other people wanted to hear. But this is what they wanted. And nosotros went over it a few times, practiced, too thence I went to Vancouver. It was the starting fourth dimension yr they were having the actual TED, they had moved it to Vancouver. And I’m brand-new to all of this. I was staying inwards a hotel, a phenomenal hotel. And I go over, too I go inside, too there’s people everywhere. And every bit I’m talking to people, it’s genuinely neat because fifty-fifty though there’s lots too lots of people there, when y'all stand upwardly adjacent to someone, y'all at in i lawsuit start talking to them. Everyone is really friendly - whether you’re a Harvard graduate or a juggler on the street. Everybody talks to everybody. It’s really unique. I haven’t seen that before. As a cop, we’re always, y'all know, y'all concur dorsum a picayune bit, too you’re ever watching everybody. This was a really, genuinely an amazing experience. And I practiced there. My speak was non until Friday. It’s a week-long bargain that TED is. My speak was non until Friday, too I was the in conclusion mortal inwards the morn session. So I had all week. And I went too saw some talks, but most of my fourth dimension I spent upwardly inwards my room practicing. So I missed a lot of TED, but it helped because I practiced, practiced, practiced. I knew what I wanted to convey, too I knew I wanted it to survive existent truthful – my feelings coming out. And showing folks, “This is what it’s like.” So on the hateful solar daytime of the TED speak I had practiced thence much, hither comes my fourth dimension to go upwardly on stage, too I walk upwardly on stage. And I start talking, too my retentiveness is non really skillful at all these days. But I had practiced thence much, too I know I conveyed it amongst my emotions that things are coming out of my rima oris every bit I’m stepping… too I had difficultly remembering a distich of parts of what I wanted to say. But it all came out every bit I wanted to create it. And I retrieve walking on the stage, too going, “OK, walk right, walk over hither a picayune bit. Turn left. Look over here. Look over here. I’m doing a TED talk!” All of this is going through my heed every bit I’m talking. As I’m doing this. It was the weirdest thing. It hasn’t happened after that.
[00:24:12]
[00:24:12]
But it was only really strange. And, y'all know, really, something earlier this that I wanted to tell y'all – seeing these folks too realizing who was there, I did a lot of protective services details for presidents: for Gore too these presidents. I have got pictures amongst them, y'all know, they walk downwards the line too milk shake your manus too say hi. Well, Gore was there. Sting was there. All these folks. They throw a dinner for the speakers, too anyone who wants to come upwardly too attend too acquire a picayune to a greater extent than well-nigh y'all can. So these folks came too wanted to know a picayune chip to a greater extent than well-nigh what I had done. And these folks? I had Harvard graduates, well, most of them. And I go, ah my god. I had really picayune education. I got my schoolhouse of hard knocks type of thing. So, I was sort of intimidated there. All these folks at that spot – a lot of high rollers. To me it was the movers too shakers of the world. It was really, genuinely something. Phenomenal. This i gentleman I had breakfast amongst told me, genuinely tall guy, similar 6 human foot five, too talking amongst him, very, really squeamish gentleman who lived in, I believe, North Carolina – he had sold his crude oil fellowship inwards Texas, for, I believe, $35 billion. Billion dollars. He said, y'all know what, I didn’t acquire that much money. But he says, y'all know, I’m doing OK. But he didn’t throw it inwards my face. It wasn’t egotistical, it was only the agency he did it. Very squeamish man. So I confided inwards him. I go, “You know what – all these people around here, most of these folks are really highly educated too doing very, really well.” (pause) I’m a traffic cop. I don’t fifty-fifty know if I should survive here.” So he goes, “Kevin, facial expression around.” He goes, “Take a look. Do y'all think anyone else hither has saved a person’s life?” So he genuinely helped me. He genuinely did. The TED experience was phenomenal. I’m thence grateful to Chris Anderson, the curator, for allowing me to create this. And it was only a wonderful, wonderful experience. (26:06)
[00:26:07]
Jonathan Singer: What that guy said to y'all I think is thence of import because at the destination of the day, it isn’t well-nigh how much coin nosotros have got or, y'all know, how of import other people think nosotros are. It’s well-nigh the lives that nosotros relieve too the lives that nosotros touch. And y'all have got clearly done that, which is why they invited y'all to the TED talk.
Kevin Briggs: Well, it was really unique experience, too I’m thence grateful. And at nowadays I acquire to move too speak to folks when they’ll have got me. Anywhere from law enforcement negotiation conferences or mental wellness or armed services - whatever it may be. And many times I acquire introduced as, “Hey, this is Kevin Briggs. He saved thence many hundreds of people’s lives.” But I don’t desire to say something well-nigh it to that when I starting fourth dimension go up. But I say, “You know what, I haven’t genuinely saved anybody. I think I’ve been at that spot on perhaps people’s darkest hateful solar daytime of their lives, too I was a conduit to assist them. And that’s the large thing is to empower those folks. I don’t pick out conduct hold of people, when they’re over that rail. I desire them, on their own, to think well-nigh it too come upwardly dorsum on their own. I think that starts their life off construct new. They did it. They accepted everything knowing that I didn’t create whatsoever of their problems, whatsoever of their issues. But they tin forcefulness out come upwardly dorsum too human face upwardly them, too say “You know what, I create desire to live. I’m gonna seek this some other day.” And it’s very, really important.
[00:27:31]
Jonathan Singer: What are some things that y'all say to people on the span that y'all think are helpful?
Kevin Briggs: I speak well-nigh their life. I speak well-nigh their past. One of the things is:
“Can y'all tell me a fourth dimension inwards your past, I’m sure at that spot is some, most times, when y'all were happy? When things were going smooth? When everything was going along all right, too y'all were smiling, too the hateful solar daytime is good, too y'all desire to survive around – you’re happy.”
And almost every fourth dimension they’ll have got something inwards the past. So to prolong that fourth dimension out, too they’ll tell me their story, which is phenomenal – good it gets them thinking. And thence I say,
“Well, why don’t y'all think that tin forcefulness out hap again?”
And sometimes they’ll have got some skillful reasons why. And I’ll say,
“Well, let’s speak well-nigh that for a picayune while.”
And I’m non gonna create anything. I’ll tell them that. I can’t. I would survive lying to them. And I’m non going to lie. If I hope them a steak dinner when they come upwardly dorsum over, boy, I gauge we’re stopping for steak dinners. But to acquire them thinking about, I desire them to think well-nigh what’s going on inwards their life, how it got to that level, too how nosotros tin forcefulness out perhaps plough this around a picayune bit. That at that spot is folks that care, starting amongst me. When I facial expression at them, I create that cursory search type of thing, seeing if there’s whatsoever weapons on them, but thence I’m genuinely only looking at their face. And all I desire them to view is my face. To demo – hither is somebody who cares. It starts amongst me. Now there’s a lot of folks that attention over there, perhaps y'all only haven’t run into them yet. Let’s view if nosotros tin forcefulness out acquire y'all some folks. And that the biggest thing, y'all know, many of these people experience that they’re all lonely too nobody’s going through what they’re going through too that it’s only non going to acquire whatsoever better. Well, I’m hoping it does acquire better. I’m praying it does acquire better. At to the lowest degree let’s have got the chance to create that. You know, unfortunately, a number of people come upwardly up at that spot nether the influence of drugs or alcohol. But I utilization that also.
“Brother, y'all tin forcefulness out come upwardly up hither whatsoever hateful solar daytime y'all want. Any hateful solar daytime y'all want. But wouldn’t y'all desire to come upwardly up hither when you’re sober? Would y'all permit a loved i drive nether the influence?”
Of course of instruction they say no, they wouldn’t desire that.
“Well, why not?”
“Because they could wound themselves. They could wound someone else.”
“Why?”
“Because your thinking’s impaired.”
“Well to me, correct now, your thinking’s impaired. This is a pretty large deal, correct here, right? Wouldn’t y'all desire to survive here, at least, if you’re gonna create this, sober?”
And I permit them think well-nigh that for a while, and..
“Well, uh, I think you’re right.”
So at to the lowest degree nosotros know if nosotros tin forcefulness out acquire them off of that hateful solar daytime too through that crisis, many, many times they’re gonna survive much better.
[00:30:06]
Jonathan Singer: So after y'all had go known every bit the Guardian of the Golden Gate, too y'all had achieved genuinely international recognition every bit someone who had saved people’s lives, y'all write inwards your book, y'all honor out that your ain boy had been thinking well-nigh killing himself. Can y'all tell us well-nigh that?
Kevin Briggs: Sure, sure. And I speak well-nigh this starting fourth dimension every bit cops, starting fourth dimension responders, those inwards the mental wellness field, I think we’re all inwards a bond amongst this particular i together, because nosotros ever desire to give, give, give too assist everyone else. But a lot of times I think nosotros lady friend what’s happening to us, our ain health, too nosotros lady friend what’s happening amongst our families. And this is just what happened to me. I was asked to go speak at nowadays at a lot of unlike places, thence I’m flight around, talking well-nigh everything that’s going on, all these stories, too it’s happening at home. I the world at San Francisco Airport, my habitation airport, too I plough on my prison theatre mobile telephone phone. And I have got ii boys. Kevin, Jr. too Travis, the younger one. There’s a telephone band from my younger one, Travis. And I think it’s a “Hey, dad, welcome dorsum home, halt past times our theatre on the agency up,” to view him, too the ex-wife too all that. But it’s not. It’s picayune Travis. He goes, “Dad, y'all demand to acquire hither quick. Kevin broke an iPad. He’s inwards the backyard, too he says he’s gonna kill himself.” Influenza A virus subtype H5N1 picayune unusual. Influenza A virus subtype H5N1 picayune dramatic. So I start heading upwardly there, too on the agency I acquire a distich of texts from Travis, the younger one. And i of them was like, “hey dad, acquire hither fast, but when y'all do, say squeamish things to kevin. don’t survive angry.” And I thought it was pretty cute. He was xi years former at the time, only a distich of years ago.
So I acquire upwardly at that spot too acquire to the house. And I go inwards the house, too inwards the household unit of measurement room there’s my ex-wife. There’s my sister. There’s Travis. And inwards the backyard, inwards the dark, is picayune Kevin only pacing dorsum too forth. And I spotter him for a picayune bit. And thence I leave of absence there, too I only position my manus on his shoulder. And I telephone band him babe boy, which he hates. And I go, “Hey babe boy, what’s going on?” And he only breaks downwards crying. Breaks downwards really, genuinely bad. I’ve never seen this picayune tiddler respite downwards similar this. And I go, wow, OK. This is something serious. So nosotros remain out there. We go sit down downwards inwards the backyard inwards the darkness, too I seek to honor out what’s going on amongst him. And I learned, too I industrial plant life out from him, a number of things. And a lot of things I was doing wrong, too wow, OK. I learned a lot. But I had non discussed my divorce amongst him. I was ashamed too embarrassed past times it too everything else. He thought he was the motion of it, which was 100% wrong. But inwards that picayune eleven-year-old mind, y'all know, that genuinely hitting him hard. And I didn’t think I was putting pressure level on him for skillful grades inwards school. But he said I was. So I was. Easy every bit that. Influenza A virus subtype H5N1 number of things that were going on through his mind. Some of the kids inwards his schoolhouse started doing marijuana, too a distich had offered it to him. He didn’t desire to create it. He knows that me existence a cop too everything else, I’m pretty much against that stuff. But he didn’t desire to create it anyways. He’s large into sports. Big into soccer. It’s his sport. Traveling teams too all that. So it was only a lot of pressure level for his picayune head. And, y'all know, he was having a really hard time. So yes, he had contemplated it. We decided to view a counselor. On the hateful solar daytime of the appointment, I pick out him - only me. And nosotros acquire there, too I inquire babe boy, Kevin, Jr., “Hey, create y'all desire me inwards the room amongst you?” I had non done anything similar this before. He goes, “Yeah, Dad. I desire y'all inwards the room.” Alright. But thence I inquire the counselor also. I go, “Hey, create y'all desire me inwards the room?” And he goes, “Oh, yeah. Come on in.” And I tell him what I did, too what I create for a a living now. In illustration inwards stems from some suicide ideation, thence he knows, oh, alright, it stems from a lot of this, what your dad has done. We go inwards the room, too the counselor is behind the desk. Baby man child is inwards forepart of that, too I’m sitting off to the side, off to the left. He starts call for all these full general questions well-nigh life. What does he dislike too similar well-nigh the household unit of measurement members, too all these full general questions. Making sure he was at to the lowest degree safe, that we’re non doing anything to him. And he’s going into everything: Yes, I’m safe, too I experience this too that. And thence he digs into him a picayune more, too he’s goes, “Well, if y'all were gone, don’t y'all think your parents would survive sad? And he goes, something to the termination of, “Well, perhaps 5 to vii years.” And I say, good wow, that’s different. I learned afterwards on that’s well-nigh every bit far every bit they tin forcefulness out view inwards the future. Very interesting stuff. And thence he digs into him a picayune more, too thence the counselor goes, “Have y'all ever wound yourself on purpose?” I know just what he was talking about, too little-bitty man child turns upwardly his left hand, takes his correct hand, too he similar sticks it amongst a knife, or a sudden object. So now, what I refer to, what nosotros would telephone band a cutter, that non-suicidal self-injury. I had seen this many, many times. Many, many times on the bridge. Folk cutting themselves prior to a suicide attempt.
And I was devastated. And I’m non thinking he did anything incorrect because he didn’t. I’m blaming myself. How did I lady friend this? How did I permit this acquire to this level? This poor picayune tiddler – how did this happen? I have got to facial expression sideways because I’m trigger-happy up. This is very, really tough, too I, y'all know, I’m ashamed of myself for this picayune boy. He has done zip wrong. I’m feeling terrible. And thence the counselor asks him a question, too he goes, “Well, you’re non going to commit suicide, are you?” And anybody who knows anything well-nigh mental disease too suicide knows that is a completely crappy agency of call for this question. Number one, acquire out from behind that desk, that barrier. Get adjacent to that kid, if you’re going to create that amongst anybody, too inquire them that question. But sure non similar that. I was, wow, I was genuinely taken back. (laughs) Are y'all kidding me? You genuinely didn’t say that. Only because I’ve done this a lot of times, too I know this is the incorrect way. I’m like, wow. He goes no, no, no. And presently thereafter, I asked the counselor if I could speak amongst him afterwards. He only did non have got the grooming inwards suicide assessment. And I think a lot of people give-and-take it similar that because they don’t desire to hear the s-word. What happens if they say yes? What create y'all create now? So nosotros talked. He didn’t have got the ego. He had a lot of training, similar a lot of counselors create too such. Very squeamish guy. He genuinely stayed amongst him. I explained my position. What I had done. He was apologetic too such. He stayed amongst him, too picayune Kevin Jr. is doing much, much improve now. I learned a lot. But I think this is what happens to a lot of starting fourth dimension responders. Those inwards the mental wellness field. Any type of folks who give, give, give to society. We neglect to view what’s going on amongst ourselves, too a lot of times, nosotros neglect to view what’s going on amongst our families. And this is what happened to me, too I was very, really lucky this turned out on a skillful way, on a skillful path.
So I acquire upwardly at that spot too acquire to the house. And I go inwards the house, too inwards the household unit of measurement room there’s my ex-wife. There’s my sister. There’s Travis. And inwards the backyard, inwards the dark, is picayune Kevin only pacing dorsum too forth. And I spotter him for a picayune bit. And thence I leave of absence there, too I only position my manus on his shoulder. And I telephone band him babe boy, which he hates. And I go, “Hey babe boy, what’s going on?” And he only breaks downwards crying. Breaks downwards really, genuinely bad. I’ve never seen this picayune tiddler respite downwards similar this. And I go, wow, OK. This is something serious. So nosotros remain out there. We go sit down downwards inwards the backyard inwards the darkness, too I seek to honor out what’s going on amongst him. And I learned, too I industrial plant life out from him, a number of things. And a lot of things I was doing wrong, too wow, OK. I learned a lot. But I had non discussed my divorce amongst him. I was ashamed too embarrassed past times it too everything else. He thought he was the motion of it, which was 100% wrong. But inwards that picayune eleven-year-old mind, y'all know, that genuinely hitting him hard. And I didn’t think I was putting pressure level on him for skillful grades inwards school. But he said I was. So I was. Easy every bit that. Influenza A virus subtype H5N1 number of things that were going on through his mind. Some of the kids inwards his schoolhouse started doing marijuana, too a distich had offered it to him. He didn’t desire to create it. He knows that me existence a cop too everything else, I’m pretty much against that stuff. But he didn’t desire to create it anyways. He’s large into sports. Big into soccer. It’s his sport. Traveling teams too all that. So it was only a lot of pressure level for his picayune head. And, y'all know, he was having a really hard time. So yes, he had contemplated it. We decided to view a counselor. On the hateful solar daytime of the appointment, I pick out him - only me. And nosotros acquire there, too I inquire babe boy, Kevin, Jr., “Hey, create y'all desire me inwards the room amongst you?” I had non done anything similar this before. He goes, “Yeah, Dad. I desire y'all inwards the room.” Alright. But thence I inquire the counselor also. I go, “Hey, create y'all desire me inwards the room?” And he goes, “Oh, yeah. Come on in.” And I tell him what I did, too what I create for a a living now. In illustration inwards stems from some suicide ideation, thence he knows, oh, alright, it stems from a lot of this, what your dad has done. We go inwards the room, too the counselor is behind the desk. Baby man child is inwards forepart of that, too I’m sitting off to the side, off to the left. He starts call for all these full general questions well-nigh life. What does he dislike too similar well-nigh the household unit of measurement members, too all these full general questions. Making sure he was at to the lowest degree safe, that we’re non doing anything to him. And he’s going into everything: Yes, I’m safe, too I experience this too that. And thence he digs into him a picayune more, too he’s goes, “Well, if y'all were gone, don’t y'all think your parents would survive sad? And he goes, something to the termination of, “Well, perhaps 5 to vii years.” And I say, good wow, that’s different. I learned afterwards on that’s well-nigh every bit far every bit they tin forcefulness out view inwards the future. Very interesting stuff. And thence he digs into him a picayune more, too thence the counselor goes, “Have y'all ever wound yourself on purpose?” I know just what he was talking about, too little-bitty man child turns upwardly his left hand, takes his correct hand, too he similar sticks it amongst a knife, or a sudden object. So now, what I refer to, what nosotros would telephone band a cutter, that non-suicidal self-injury. I had seen this many, many times. Many, many times on the bridge. Folk cutting themselves prior to a suicide attempt.
And I was devastated. And I’m non thinking he did anything incorrect because he didn’t. I’m blaming myself. How did I lady friend this? How did I permit this acquire to this level? This poor picayune tiddler – how did this happen? I have got to facial expression sideways because I’m trigger-happy up. This is very, really tough, too I, y'all know, I’m ashamed of myself for this picayune boy. He has done zip wrong. I’m feeling terrible. And thence the counselor asks him a question, too he goes, “Well, you’re non going to commit suicide, are you?” And anybody who knows anything well-nigh mental disease too suicide knows that is a completely crappy agency of call for this question. Number one, acquire out from behind that desk, that barrier. Get adjacent to that kid, if you’re going to create that amongst anybody, too inquire them that question. But sure non similar that. I was, wow, I was genuinely taken back. (laughs) Are y'all kidding me? You genuinely didn’t say that. Only because I’ve done this a lot of times, too I know this is the incorrect way. I’m like, wow. He goes no, no, no. And presently thereafter, I asked the counselor if I could speak amongst him afterwards. He only did non have got the grooming inwards suicide assessment. And I think a lot of people give-and-take it similar that because they don’t desire to hear the s-word. What happens if they say yes? What create y'all create now? So nosotros talked. He didn’t have got the ego. He had a lot of training, similar a lot of counselors create too such. Very squeamish guy. He genuinely stayed amongst him. I explained my position. What I had done. He was apologetic too such. He stayed amongst him, too picayune Kevin Jr. is doing much, much improve now. I learned a lot. But I think this is what happens to a lot of starting fourth dimension responders. Those inwards the mental wellness field. Any type of folks who give, give, give to society. We neglect to view what’s going on amongst ourselves, too a lot of times, nosotros neglect to view what’s going on amongst our families. And this is what happened to me, too I was very, really lucky this turned out on a skillful way, on a skillful path.
[36:51]
Jonathan Singer: That’s an amazing story. All of it’s amazing. Every component subdivision of it. I genuinely appreciate y'all sharing well-nigh your boy because, every bit y'all said, I think i of the things that happens for starting fourth dimension responders, mental wellness folks, is that nosotros are used to existence the ones who are helping. We’re used to existence the ones who say, “Oh, I view what’s going on. I am going to create something.” But thence to survive inwards the seat of sitting inwards the component subdivision too saying, “Wait a minute. I don’t know if I tin forcefulness out assist correct this minute. Maybe somebody else needs to stride in. Maybe I demand to survive hither every bit a household unit of measurement member.” Right? Not the Guardian of the Golden Gate. I think it’s a genuinely hard thing for folks to switch into.
Kevin Briggs: I think you’re absolutely right, too I would add together to that, I would say: don’t survive afraid to survive the client. Sometimes. I think that’s hard for us, specially cops sometimes. Especially motor cops similar myself. We acquire these egos too all that. Like I tin forcefulness out grip everything. Well, y'all can’t. I tin forcefulness out tell you. Don’t survive afraid to survive the client. You know, you’ll alive longer.
Jonathan Singer: Kevin, give thank y'all you thence much for taking the fourth dimension to speak amongst us today on . I genuinely appreciate it.
Kevin Briggs: It’s been absolutely my pleasure. Thank y'all for having me.
END
Grateful yell out to John West who donated this transcript.
 |
| Meeting Kevin Briggs for the starting fourth dimension time at the 2015 American Association of Suicidology Conference inwards Chicago |
References too Resources
Pivital Points http://www.pivotal-points.com/index.phpAPA (6th ed) citation for this podcast:
Singer, J. B. (Producer). (2016, June 12). #104 - Guardian of the Golden Gate: Interview amongst Kevin Briggs [Audio Podcast]. Social Work Podcast. Retrieved from /search?q=briggs
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