[Episode 54] Today's Social Work Podcast, Psychoanalytic Treatment inwards Contemporary Social Work Practice: An Interview amongst Dr. Carol Tosone, addresses 2 questions: First, is psychodynamic handling relevant inwards contemporary social piece of work practice? In other words, does it view the needs of the clients, the agencies, as well as the funding sources? Second, has clinical social piece of work abandoned social work's historical commitment to advocating for social change? I holler upwardly they are questions worth thinking about.Well, inwards monastic tell to reply some of these questions, I spoke with Dr. Carol Tosone about contemporary psychoanalytic treatment. Dr. Tosone completed her psychoanalytic grooming at the Postgraduate Center for Mental Health, where she was the recipient of the Postgraduate Memorial Award. She is an Associate Professor at the Silver School of Social Work at New York University, the recipient of the NYU Distinguished Teaching Award as well as is a Distinguished Scholar inwards Social Work inwards the National Academies of Practice inwards Washington, D.C. In 2007, Dr. Tosone was selected for a Fulbright Senior Specialist Award for teaching as well as enquiry at the Hanoi University of Education inwards Vietnam. She is the editor-in-chief of the Clinical Social Work Journal, as well as the executive producer as well as author of 4 social piece of work instruction videos. And she is an proficient inwards shared trauma – which is when a customer as well as therapist experience the same traumatic event. I interviewed Carol most shared trauma inwards Episode 90: http://www.socialworkpodcast.com/shared-trauma.html.
Download MP3 [37:01]Ask whatever social piece of work pupil today what the organizing framework for social piece of work do is, they won't say, "psychodynamic theory." They'll probable state "the strengths perspective," or "ecological systems theory." When my students do enquiry papers on the best approaches to addressing mental wellness problems, they commonly write most cognitive as well as behavioral treatments, possibly because the evidence-base is dominated yesteryear studies of cognitive as well as behavioral approaches. When I enquire my students what theoretical perspectives seem to live most consistent amongst their values as well as perspectives, they commonly state "CBT" or "solution-focused." I commonly alone receive got 1 or 2 students who direct a psychodynamic perspective. My students are commonly surprised to hear that inwards the early 20th century, the social piece of work profession adopted Freudian psychoanalysis equally the organizing framework for providing straight services to clients. Social piece of work pioneers such equally Mary Richmond were psychoanalytic social workers. The authority of psychodynamic handling continued for decades. Even during the 1960s as well as 70s, when social piece of work returned to its community organizing roots as well as mezzo as well as macro degree changes were seen equally the best way to improve clients' lives, most straight do social workers identified equally psychodynamic. For example, inwards 1982, a national study reported that fifty-fifty though most clinical social workers were eclectic inwards their practice, their preferred theoretical orientation was psychoanalytic (Jayaratne, 1982). Fast frontwards to 2009. Psychoanalytic handling is widely dismissed equally beingness patriarchal, oppressive, as well as out-of-touch amongst the needs as well as realities of social piece of work clients. Insurance companies are requiring that clinicians exercise treatments that are short-term, empirically validated, as well as cost-effective. Agencies are increasingly requiring clinical staff to exercise prescribed treatments. Clinical social piece of work instruction has moved towards teaching evidence-based practice, as well as learning most treatments amongst a cognitive behavioral, rather than psychodynamic basis. So, if students seem to prefer non-psychodynamic theories, agencies as well as insurance companies are mandating the exercise of non-psychodynamic treatments, as well as an increasing number of schools of social piece of work are teaching cognitive as well as behavior-based evidence-based treatments, what identify does psychodynamic handling receive got inwards contemporary social piece of work practice?
Well, inwards monastic tell to reply some of these questions, I spoke amongst Dr. Carol Tosone about contemporary psychoanalytic treatment. Dr. Tosone completed her psychoanalytic grooming at the Postgraduate Center for Mental Health, where she was the recipient of the Postgraduate Memorial Award. She is an Associate Professor at the Silver School of Social Work at New York University, the recipient of the NYU Distinguished Teaching Award as well as is a Distinguished Scholar inwards Social Work inwards the National Academies of Practice inwards Washington, D.C. In 2007, Dr. Tosone was selected for a Fulbright Senior Specialist Award for teaching as well as enquiry at the Hanoi University of Education inwards Vietnam. She is the editor-in-chief of the Clinical Social Work Journal, as well as the executive producer as well as author of 4 social piece of work instruction videos. And she is an proficient inwards shared trauma – which is when a customer as well as therapist experience the same traumatic event. I interviewed Carol most shared trauma inwards Episode 90: http://www.socialworkpodcast.com/shared-trauma.html.
In today's podcast, Carol as well as I talked most what distinguishes contemporary dynamic handling from traditional psychoanalysis, the role of attachment theory inwards contemporary dynamic treatment, how beak therapy changes the way the encephalon processes information, as well as how brief dynamic handling tin live used inwards typical social piece of work means settings. Carol emphasized that contemporary psychoanalytic handling as well as concrete services, such equally instance management, referral, or advocacy work, are non mutually exclusive. She shared how she came to view herself equally a social worker firstly as well as an analyst second. We ended our conversation amongst data most resources for social workers inwards schoolhouse as well as inwards the plain who powerfulness live interested inwards learning to a greater extent than most contemporary dynamic treatment. In improver to talking most the magazine she edits, The Clinical Social Work Journal as well as a video serial she produces, Carol suggested that the best resources social workers receive got is other social workers as well as encouraged clinical social workers to write to a greater extent than as well as part their insights as well as experiences.
I recorded today's interview at the University of Texas at Austin's schoolhouse of social work. Carol was at UT to give the maiden Sue Fairbanks Lecture inwards Psychoanalytic Knowledge. I desire to give thank yous the Sue Fairbanks lecture organizing committee, specially Vicki Packheiser, for helping to coordinate the interview amongst Carol. You powerfulness hear the sound of children playing inwards the background - Carol as well as I spoke inwards an business office right higher upwardly a daycare center. So, without farther ado, on to the interview amongst Dr. Carol Tosone as well as contemporary psychoanalytic handling inwards social piece of work practice.
Transcript
Jonathan Singer: So, Carol, thank yous thence much for beingness hither today on the podcast talking amongst us most psychoanalytic treatment. And my firstly inquiry is: What is psychoanalytic treatment?
Carol Tosone: Well, give thank yous you, Jonathan, I’m real excited to live here. And psychoanalytic treatment, I think, genuinely is subject on who’s holler for the inquiry as well as who’s answering it. In the sense that I holler upwardly a lot of people receive got dissimilar views most what constitutes psychoanalytic treatment. So unfortunately what happens is that traditionally people assume that when you’re talking most psychoanalytic handling someone volition live on the couch, it volition live 4 to v times per week. And as well as thence when yous aspect at the real vulnerable clients that nosotros piece of work with, people volition say, “Well you, yous can’t do that amongst our clients.” And also what’s happened is that there’s been somewhat of a schism betwixt clinical social piece of work as well as social piece of work proper inwards that a lot of people at nowadays thought clinical social workers equally doing the psychoanalytic handling amongst the worried well, if yous will, the real well-to-do clients. In fact, that’s genuinely a real erroneous supposition most what constitutes psychoanalytic handling inside the realm of social work. So, to clarify, what nosotros do is genuinely to direct core psychoanalytic principles as well as contain contemporary research, specially inwards attachment theory. There’s tremendous amount of enquiry that’s come upwardly out, specially around areas of trauma, as well as we’re taking that cognition as well as applying it to the agreement of populations at risk, the real vulnerable populations who are mostly severely traumatized. So, rather than 4 or v times a calendar week on the couch, if anything, what contemporary psychoanalytic do inside social piece of work is real flexible thence that what yous volition observe is that you’ll live working amongst someone sometimes 1 time a week, sometimes equally needed. You volition live recommending other types of adjunctive treatment, yous volition live having the individual do things similar journaling, yous powerfulness advise them to locomote to yoga, yous powerfulness fifty-fifty encourage music therapy, trip the low-cal fantastic toe therapy, a lot of the to a greater extent than creative therapies that come upwardly into play. And that’s considered component as well as packet of the treatment. So, it’s genuinely real dissimilar than the icon that a lot of people receive got inwards take away heed around what constitutes psychodynamic treatment.
Jonathan Singer: What are some of the assumptions of contemporary psychoanalysis, as well as how are they similar to, as well as dissimilar from, traditional psychoanalytic treatment?
Carol Tosone: Well, inwards some way, firstly I holler upwardly yous demand to empathize the assumptions that are inwards common. The assumptions that at that spot is an unconscious, that 1 reaction brings most some other reaction. So I holler upwardly that’s something that’s real clear. Issues around transference come upwardly to the fore, whether or non it’s inwards handling or it occurs amongst other people. There is a sense that, that nosotros receive got a template set downward real early as well as that that’s something that continues throughout our life. So I holler upwardly those are the things that are clearly inwards common. What happens is that, inwards many respects, yous powerfulness exercise dissimilar words to push clit it thence inwards traditional handling nosotros would beak most the transference, as well as to a greater extent than thence at nowadays nosotros would beak most internal working models. So that the linguistic communication is a petty flake dissimilar inwards traditional psychoanalysis versus what attachment theory has contributed.
Jonathan Singer: So, yous mentioned attachment theory. Could yous state to a greater extent than most that inwards the context of treatment?
Carol Tosone: Sure, attachment theory, it genuinely began amongst John Bowlby as well as he was active inwards the British Psychoanalytic Society as well as he genuinely became ostracized because Freud, at the time, evidently felt that 1 was seeking gratification inwards drives, urges, etcetera. The id is, actually, is variety of fallen from exercise inwards our parlance, if yous will. But he said that no, that an babe from nascence is object-seeking. So the thought is that when an babe is born, the drive is for connexion to other. And that, at the fourth dimension was different, as well as he wasn’t genuinely welcomed, let’s say. He became ostracized inwards damage of writing, his powerfulness to speak at the society, as well as thence his work, if yous will, got shelved for a few years as well as it became to a greater extent than pop amongst the relational psychoanalytic motion that went from looking at the asymmetry of an analytic relationship, pregnant I am the, I am the doctor, I am the provider, I am the all-knowing as well as yous I will, yous know, give my data to as well as whatnot. And, it genuinely emphasizes to a greater extent than the symmetry of the human relationship as well as the discussion as well as the thought that the clinician, your counter-transference isn’t thence much your blind spot, but your counter-transference is, inwards fact, the major tool that you’re using inwards working amongst somebody to empathize their experience as well as the belief most the transfer of those emotions from 1 to the other as well as the agreement of it. So, it’s a real dissimilar view, if yous will. Now, amongst attachment theory, what nosotros know is that at that spot are dissimilar attachment styles. Someone is securely attached, yous know, pregnant that they’re comfort amongst a degree of distance, they’re comfortable amongst the degree of connection, the powerfulness to vacillate betwixt the 2 is non problematic. Then yous receive got dissimilar insecure attachment styles. Someone tin live insecure-avoidant. Someone tin live insecure- ambivalent or anxious, equally nosotros telephone band it. The avoidant individual is someone, I similar to beak most it inwards damage of relationships styles, yous oftentimes view the partner that is avoiding commitment, they’re avoiding closeness. And the anxious-ambivalent 1 is that 1 that seeks proximity to the other, feels real uncomfortable/anxious when they’re non available. And that developed from Mary Ainsworth’s study of the “Strange Situation” as well as it’s since been applied to the agreement of romantic relationships, Hazen as well as Shaver. It’s been applied to the agreement of trauma, sure enough Fonagy, Mary Target. And inwards doing so, what nosotros know amongst the insecure attachment styles is that that variety of governs someone’s experience thence that the way inwards which they approach most people inwards the Earth is from those detail styles. And, most recently, Main as well as Hess had done to a greater extent than piece of work as well as genuinely found a 4th style, a disoriented or disorganized attachment style. And this is a trend of insecurity that’s tremendously chaotic as well as it springs from a kid experience of growing upwardly inwards a real chaotic surround thence that at that spot is a to-and-fro of the parent, there’s an instability, they’re available, they’re not. And nosotros view thence many of the populations nosotros care for inwards social work, many of the people nosotros care for tin live categorized equally such. So, issues such equally pith abuse, deport disorder, hyperactivity, people who receive got a proclivity towards beingness survivors of domestic violence. These areas, many of the people powerfulness live categorized inwards this 4th type of attachment style. And, inwards damage of the treatment, the emphasis is all around establishing a secure base of operations as well as using the human relationship to brand changes inwards the person’s development. Now also, attachment trend is married, if yous will, at nowadays to neural scientific discipline inwards that nosotros empathize that the building, that what nosotros develop, what nosotros push clit equally neuronal plasticity, basically the edifice of brain, the structuring of the encephalon as well as restructuring, has to do amongst its interaction amongst the surround as well as the people inwards it. So that if yous receive got an early experience that’s either over-stimulating, let’s say, through abuse or under-stimulated yesteryear neglect, that tin live corrected yesteryear positive exchanges inwards the environment, as well as no improve identify to do that than inside the social piece of work relationship. Because, if yous holler upwardly most it, many of our clients, they haven’t had this stability inwards their past, they haven’t had it inwards their personal life. So, oftentimes, that social worker, that social piece of work intern could live the firstly individual that provided a concerted attention, a concerted endeavor to assist them. And that attention, if yous will, helps the individual develop changes inwards the encephalon structure. We know that Casalino’s piece of work is a wonderful illustration of all of the changes that occur inwards the psychotherapeutic process, that yous develop changes exactly equally yous tin inwards whatever signal inwards the life cycle.
Jonathan Singer: So, Carol, you’re talking most how the human relationship betwixt the social worker as well as the customer made changes inwards their attachment. And I was wondering, do yous receive got an representative of what that looks like?
Carol Tosone: Sure, I’d live happy to provide an example. What I can’t provide, certainly, is the neural imaging that would demonstrate changes inwards their encephalon construction that would back upwardly that. And I holler upwardly that’s 1 of the disadvantages, if yous will, inwards social work, inwards that thence much of our work, I think, is intuitive. It’s real right encephalon to right encephalon communication as well as I holler upwardly that’s something that nosotros can’t readily document, given the nature of these studies that nosotros undertake as well as things similar that. But, sure enough I’ll give yous an representative of someone I worked amongst a piece back, who was genuinely an older woman. She came from a real impoverished background, she was on Medicaid. She came from a household unit of measurement where at that spot was a history of alcoholism, physical abuse. And, actually, she had conducted much of her life inwards the same way inwards that she had been abusive to 1 of her children, she married someone who was alcoholic, she was a survivor of domestic violence, as well as she had thence many of the multiple problems, the environmentally, challenged, yous know, she was environmentally challenged inwards that way. And what I holler upwardly it was inwards doing the piece of work amongst her, firstly of all, she had no self-esteem, she had no abide by for her ain insights into situations. So what you’re doing is you’re helping someone attune themselves to what they feel, what they think, as well as inwards exactly supplying empathy. You receive got them genuinely start to view themselves as well as experience themselves inwards a dissimilar way. And, inwards many respects, that human relationship was the firstly corrective human relationship she ever had inwards her life. So that rather than anticipating the neglect, as well as at firstly her, yous know, her dukes were up, she was waiting for fight, as well as when nosotros variety of talked most her anticipation of it, how she experienced me, me clarifying that my intent wasn’t to wound her inwards whatever way, 1 time she was able to permit that in, yous already receive got changes taking identify inwards the brain. You receive got novel neural pathways that are beingness set down. What happens when somebody’s been traumatized is yous receive got a fight/flight response. If yous were inwards the war, and, yous know, evidently yous hear gunfire, as well as and thence yous hear a, when yous come upwardly back, yous hear a auto backfire, you’re primed. You respond inwards the same way because the encephalon is already inwards a survival mode as well as it’s what nosotros telephone band the reptilian encephalon as well as it exactly takes over. Now, what happens is through learning, through learning that one, that is non gonna happen, through developing novel associative paths, if yous will, that a auto backfiring is a auto backfiring. By giving people tools around breathing exercises, exposure therapy, etcetera, etcetera, yous start to alter novel pathways. And similarly, inwards the human relationship what happens is that yous start, when yous start providing a dissimilar experience, the individual tin direct inwards a dissimilar template, if yous will, of what the other is similar as well as that someone tin aid most yous as well as give to yous as well as non live at that spot to wound you. So what happens is, inwards damage of encephalon functioning, the encephalon starts basically opening up, it starts developing novel ways of processing experience, processing emotional experience that receive got a to a greater extent than positive valence. And equally that increases, that’s what nosotros beak most working through inwards growth, is that that’s when yous view people receive got the capacity to do to a greater extent than things that they hadn’t before. If you’re busy beingness primed to acquire by as well as all of a abrupt yous don’t receive got to do that, yous at nowadays have, live it psychic energy, all the same yous desire to push clit it, yous at nowadays receive got the powerfulness to genuinely exercise that unloosen energy towards to a greater extent than positive ends. So, here’s a adult woman that went dorsum as well as she started to develop some hobbies, she started to live to a greater extent than remorseful amongst 1 of her children as well as piece of work on establishing a dissimilar relationship. And, I think, the argue I exercise this representative is here’s a adult woman who’s inwards the latter phase of her life that many people would state it’s non possible. That’s non truthful at all. The changes are possible throughout the life cycle.
Jonathan Singer: Well, it sounds similar at that spot was a lot of genuinely positive alter amongst that customer inwards damage of her human relationship amongst others, the way she variety of experienced herself inwards the world. And, when I was listening to the even out I was thinking about, possibly when she firstly came in, because of her trauma, she saw yous equally somebody who is maybe unsafe. And I know inwards traditional psychoanalytic as well as psychodynamic thinking that that’s called transference, that what the customer projects onto the social worker, the therapist. And inwards traditional psychoanalytic models, the resolution of transference provides this basic framework for therapeutic change. But, given that this piece of work ofttimes takes months or years, how would 1 piece of work towards transference resolution inwards a brief therapy framework?
Carol Tosone: Well, I holler upwardly what’s interesting, many of our students as well as I’ll say, who wants to do long work, as well as they all say, yous know, long-term work, as well as everybody raises their mitt as well as what they don’t empathize is that the piece of work they’re doing is a short-term model. They’re at the most working ix months amongst somebody, as well as that’s commonly a short-term model. So, nosotros receive got to maintain that inwards mind. Now, when nosotros beak most transference traditionally, absolutely, it took years. The thought was the resolution of it, that they came to view their provider equally someone real different. However, nowadays, the piece of work amongst transference is oftentimes called “pragmatic psychoanalysis,” if yous will. That’s what’s done inwards psychoanalysis proper, Ted Jacobs had written a majority most that basically, as well as that is that if yous are sitting amongst somebody as well as yous maintain talking most “our relationship, our relationship,” I’ve sure enough had patients state to me, “Hey, no offense, I don’t genuinely aid most you, I exactly demand help, you’re supposed to assist me amongst it.” And they don’t desire to beak most it, thence what happens is that yous tin piece of work amongst the transference, non inwards an explicit way but inwards a to a greater extent than implicit way. And that the alone time, inwards damage of dynamic short-term work, I volition piece of work amongst somebody, commonly inwards the transference, when there’s a negative transference as well as it interferes amongst the working alliance. In the commencement yous receive got a curt menses of time, yous desire to flora the alliance equally I did amongst that detail client. It was problematic, I clarified, I asked what I had done incorrect to brand sure nosotros had a dissimilar understanding. I said, “If yous experience me similar this inwards the future, delight permit me know,” each session, “Is at that spot anything I said or did that makes yous experience uncomfortable?” So, I did a lot of monitoring of what’s going on, which I holler upwardly is important. But it was also to a greater extent than supportive-based. So when you’re working short-term as well as you’re working amongst the transference on a to a greater extent than short-term basis, the emphasis is that they experience yous inwards a to a greater extent than helping type of way, that they view yous equally someone who is on their side, that you’re working together inwards the working alliance. That’s the most of import affair that people receive got because they don’t desire to focus on the relationship. You focus on the human relationship when yous desire to illustrate a point, when yous desire to illustrate a difference. So amongst this woman, equally she outlined all of these problematic relationships towards the halt of the piece of work I was able to state to her, “But you’re capable of something else, aspect at our piece of work together, yous had a real dissimilar experience. You weren’t fighting amongst me, yous were able to direct inwards what I said.” And I had genuinely given her some insight most a work that she was real angry at other people for but that she had been able to grow as well as to direct inwards that information. So, yous exercise a transference to genuinely beak most a alter thence that yous tin underscore the growth that’s taking place. So that’s how I piece of work amongst the transference inwards a to a greater extent than short-term model. Now, in, um, brief dynamic treatment, such equally I was trained, at the University of Pennsylvania amongst Lester Luborsky, Paul Crits-Christoph, I had done my dissertation piece of work amongst them as well as I had done some handling inside their clinic. And inwards that piece of work yous receive got a xvi session model as well as real early I’m working inwards the transference – what was your sense inwards the firstly meeting? What was your sense inwards working amongst me? What did yous expect? How did yous hold back me to be? Clarifying anything that I did that concerned you. You’re working inwards the transference constantly, yous know. But yous do it inwards a way where yous beak most it, but yous beak most it inwards relation to the experience amongst people inwards their lives as well as contrasting it. And thence when someone says, “Oh, this is hopeless,” yous signal out, no it isn’t. Look what you’re doing right here, right at nowadays amongst me, you’re capable of it. So you, again, yous exercise the human relationship to underscore a dissimilar experience. And that, of course, feeds dorsum to what nosotros talked most earlier inwards damage of changes inwards encephalon structure, attachment, etcetera, facilitating a to a greater extent than secure attachment.
Jonathan Singer: Social piece of work students oftentimes desire to do clinical piece of work as well as they brand this distinction betwixt advocacy work, yous know, resources referral, instance management, as well as and thence clinical do or therapy. The folks that are listening to this podcast are genuinely excited most what you’re talking most inwards damage of dynamic handling as well as working amongst the relationship. Are yous maxim that they demand to consider themselves therapists as well as acquire trained inwards dynamic handling as well as non do the resources referrals as well as advocacy work, or not?
Carol Tosone: Jonathan, give thank yous you thence much for holler for that inquiry because that gives me the chance to genuinely clarify a misunderstanding most clinical work. That the dichotomy betwixt clinical piece of work as well as concrete services is it’s a faux dichotomy. And I holler upwardly it takes tremendous clinical science to live able to deliver concrete services. Now, holler upwardly most how many students brand referrals as well as the individual doesn’t direct them upwardly on it. So if yous holler upwardly most all of the endeavor that someone puts forth inwards offering as well as researching as well as providing these resources for people as well as they don’t direct them upwardly on it. What a clinical perspective does is it industrial plant on agreement why that doesn’t occur. How do yous engage somebody thence that they’d live able to direct the service? How does it locomote an aspect of the human relationship as well as a gift as well as understood inwards that perspective? And I holler upwardly concrete service is genuinely a misnomer because it’s equally if it’s non abstract, equally if it’s something variety of lesser than. Again, a large misunderstanding. And permit me give yous an example. I’ve done a lot of consulting amongst hospitals, as well as inwards social piece of work departments, let’s state if you’re working to assist someone direct placement inwards a nursing home. Now, to realize the amount of clinical acumen that it takes to do that, you, inwards a real rapid menses of time, yous receive got to receive got someone trust yous inwards damage of their finances, whereas most partners don’t trust each other amongst finances, thence yous demand someone to live able to live honest, yous demand someone to depend on you, they demand to live able to depend on your judgment most what’s goodness for them. And inwards monastic tell to do that, it takes a tremendous amount of skill. And I’d genuinely propose that I’ve found inwards doing that type of practice, that that takes to a greater extent than science than it does when I, inwards my psychoanalytic piece of work where I receive got someone on the couch as well as I’m working amongst them on a long-term Blue Planet because to engage someone, to live able to display empathy inwards a way that they tin convey inwards a curt menses of fourth dimension is very, real important. And what I learn our students is that nosotros are genuinely systems experts. We receive got an agreement of the psychodynamic, the intrapsychic scheme inwards interaction amongst the interpersonal scheme as well as and thence inwards interaction amongst the larger environmental systems inside our society, as well as that’s genuinely our niche, that’s genuinely our expertise. It’s a pet peeve of mine when social workers genuinely diminish what nosotros know, or that they direct their task description, if yous will, that’s defined yesteryear someone else, that’s defined yesteryear a infirmary administrator, for instance, amongst an MBA, or is defined yesteryear a psychiatrist who chooses to atomic number 82 the handling team. And, if I can, permit me exactly tell yous a brief even out most my experience when I had taught at Temple medical schoolhouse equally assistant professor of social piece of work inwards psychiatry. We were interviewing a patient who was depressed, an African American woman, as well as nosotros were trying to illustrate interviewing skills to medical students. And so, a woman’s brought inwards as well as there’s a psychiatrist talking most how to give a psychiatric assessment, a psychologist comes inwards to beak most how to do a psychological assessment, as well as and thence I was brought inwards from a psychoanalytic perspective. So, inwards walks this woman, 200 medical students, she’s real upset, she doesn’t anticipate thence many students. So she comes in, she sits down, she’s angry. The psychiatrist instantly launches into his mini mental condition exam, holler for specific questions. She responds inwards a real terse manner. And yous tin view the audience, the medical students getting uncomfortable because this adult woman is non cooperating; she’s non genuinely facing the interviewer. Same affair amongst the psychologist. Then it comes to my turn. So, I, yous know, I innovate myself, I enquire her what she’s been told most coming here. Well, she’s been told that at that spot were alone going to live a handful of students, which at that spot weren’t, as well as I said I totally empathize that, I apologized on behalf of the people that had organized it. And I said that I sure enough would empathize if at this signal she wanted to halt this interview because that’s what she wasn’t expecting. She said no, that wasn’t necessary, she thanked me for my concern, as well as I suggested that maybe if nosotros exactly faced each other, nosotros could focus on ourselves as well as non worry most the audience, per se, would that live helpful to her. She said yes. I said, “If at whatever signal I enquire yous a inquiry that you’re uncomfortable with, delight permit me know as well as I’ll live glad to either drib it or rephrase it.” She thanked me as well as I proceeded to enquire a number of questions. And as well as thence I also had said earlier that, I said that I exactly desire to give thank yous you on behalf of everyone inwards the room because you’re teaching us how to interview, thence I desire to give thank yous you for what you’re doing for us. And amongst that, the medical students all clapped as well as the adult woman is at nowadays evidently to a greater extent than animated, more, has to a greater extent than self esteem, she’s to a greater extent than elated. And thence later I had finished holler for my questions I said, “Is it ok if the medical students enquire yous some questions?” She says, yes, she turns to them as well as she’s correcting their questions, offering suggestions most improve ways to enquire it. And as well as thence the interview ends, nosotros give thank yous her. After she leaves, 1 of the medical students raised his mitt as well as he said to me, “Can yous tell me, Professor Tosone, what was the psychoanalytic technique yous were using to engage this woman?” And I receive got to tell yous that at that signal inwards my career I was more, I was an analyst, I was a faculty fellow member inwards a medical school. I wanted to acquire far away from social piece of work because at that spot was no self esteem, no 1 understood what I did, as well as it was at that moment, it was a defining 2nd inwards my career that I realized was social piece of work had to offer. So I said to the medical students, I said, “Well, actually, this wasn’t something I learned inwards psychiatry. This was something I learned inwards my firstly semester of social piece of work school. We telephone band it “starting where the customer is.” And I took such delight inwards watching 200 students direct copious notes on what I had said. And I holler upwardly it genuinely speaks to the powerfulness of social work. And piece I was at Temple nosotros also did psychoanalytic rounds as well as nosotros would interview, yous know, dissimilar people that came in. And it was striking that they were thence busy titrating someone’s medication as well as ignoring the fact that when the individual left they had nowhere to live, they had tremendously strained relationships. So the psychodynamic aspects of the surround were non taken into account. And that is what social piece of work tin offering improve than whatever other profession. No profession is improve suited to that than us.
Jonathan Singer: Carol, that’s a neat story. Could yous beak most some resources that are available for social workers who, similar myself, got real excited most beingness a social worker listening to that story, to larn to a greater extent than most dynamic handling as well as all the things that we’ve been talking most hither today?
Carol Tosone: Thanks, Jonathan, I’d live happy to do that. But the firstly affair I desire to state is that I holler upwardly for every listener that what yous demand to do is yous demand to commit to beingness a resources yourself. That is to writing to a greater extent than inwards the field, nosotros don’t do plenty writing equally social workers. So yous demand to genuinely piece of work on becoming your ain resources as well as disseminating that to colleagues. That’s number one. And towards that end, I took over equally editor-in-chief of the Clinical Social Work Journal, as well as what I’ve tried to do is there’s a misunderstanding that, again, it’s exactly for people inwards individual do that read the journal. And what we’ve genuinely done is nosotros are showing inwards all of the enquiry articles nosotros accept, they receive got to receive got clinical relevance. In all of the applied theory, if yous will, articles, etcetera, what nosotros tried to do is demonstrate its relevance to social piece of work populations at risk. So if a magazine can’t genuinely demonstrate, I mean, if a magazine article can’t genuinely demonstrate that, as well as thence it’s genuinely non appropriate for a journal. So what nosotros seek to do is to demonstrate nosotros direct psychodynamic skills, but they are applied towards populations at risk. Um, as well as inwards damage of resources, exactly on our magazine website, nosotros receive got recommended readings for students as well as yesteryear specific categories, yesteryear specific populations. And thence people tin access that as well as exactly download it. We’ve also distributed it to schools of social piece of work across the country. It was sent to every dean thence that they receive got that resources equally well. Another affair towards that halt and, again, I’m talking most things that I’ve done as well as that’s exactly because, again, I experience a responsibleness that when nosotros receive got these beliefs around clinical versus concrete, nosotros demand to do specific things to genuinely acquire that out to other people. So nosotros developed a video serial for the Council on Social Work Education. Right at nowadays they receive got two, nosotros receive got 2 nether submission. One is, the firstly 1 is called Why Am I Here Engaging the Reluctant Client? And nosotros took actual pupil procedure recordings as well as what nosotros did was clinical supervision around it thence that they tin view that this real unproblematic interview that they powerfulness non construe equally clinical, all of the clinical aspects it has. And as well as thence nosotros receive got 1 on working amongst older adults called Rewarding Challenges. And nosotros receive got 2 to a greater extent than coming out, 1 working amongst older adults who are abusing substances, a growing problem. Then nosotros receive got 1 on trauma. One of my areas of expertise is shared trauma where the customer as well as clinician are exposed to the same traumatic event. I personally, uh, alive as well as piece of work inwards lower Manhattan, thence 9/11 I had the unfortunate experience of having a plane wing overhead when I was amongst a client. That variety of generated my involvement inwards that. And equally good equally disaster piece of work as well as piece of work amongst survivors amongst trauma similar sexual abuse. So nosotros receive got examples of that. And what nosotros do is nosotros receive got reenactments of interviews, nosotros receive got supervisory sessions to debrief most it as well as and thence nosotros receive got teaching points thence that people cannot alone view what happens but as well as thence also what yous do is yous view what happens inwards supervision as well as how that’s handled.
Jonathan Singer: And nosotros tin pose links on the social piece of work podcast website thence that folks know how to acquire to that information.
Carol Tosone: Yes, as well as I’d live happy also to provide lists, a to a greater extent than full general listing of other resources because at that spot are a number of people inwards other organizations that are working towards this halt equally well.
Jonathan Singer: That’s great. Well, Carol, this has been fascinating. Thank yous thence much for spending fourth dimension today talking most contemporary psychoanalytic handling as well as for genuinely making that connexion betwixt the myth of the clinical social worker as well as social piece of work equally people do it today.
Carol Tosone: Thank you, Jonathan. And I genuinely desire to give thank yous you for what yous do for the profession because I holler upwardly your podcast tin accomplish thence many people across the globe, thence many social workers across the globe, who are genuinely craving cognition inwards our area. And thence to genuinely acquaint them amongst the up-to-date cognition inwards social piece of work is thence of import as well as it’s a tremendous service thence I desire to give thank yous you for what yous do.
Jonathan Singer: Thank you.
--End--
References as well as Resources
- Rosenthal Gelman, C. (Executive Producer/Writer/Narrator/Supervisor), Tosone, C. (Executive Producer/Writer), & McVeigh, L. (Executive Producer). (2006). Rewarding Challenges: Social Work amongst Older Adults [Training Video/DVD]. United States: New York University.
- Rosenthal Gelman, C. (Executive Producer), Tosone, C. (Executive Producer), McVeigh, L. (Executive Producer), & Roach, A. (Director/Producer). (2005). No Periods, Only Commas [Community Service Media]. United States: New York University.
- Tosone, C. (Writer/Associate Producer/On Screen Supervisor), McVeigh, L. (Director/Executive Producer), & Rosenthal Gelman, C. (Writer/Associate Producer) (2003). Feel Free to Feel Better [Training Video]. United States: Project Liberty Federal Emergency Management Agency.
- Rosenthal Gelman, C. (Writer/Executive Producer) McVeigh, L. (Director/Producer), Tosone, C. (Writer/Executive Producer/Narrator/On Screen Supervisor). (2002). Why Am I Here: Engaging the Reluctant Client [Training Video] United States: Council on Social Work Education.
APA (6th ed) citation for this podcast:
Singer, J. B. (Producer). (2009, Dec 14). #54 - Psychoanalytic Treatment inwards Contemporary Social Work Practice: An Interview amongst Dr. Carol Tosone [Episode 54]. Social Work Podcast [Audio podcast]. Retrieved from /search?q=psychoanalytic-treatment-in
Singer, J. B. (Producer). (2009, Dec 14). #54 - Psychoanalytic Treatment inwards Contemporary Social Work Practice: An Interview amongst Dr. Carol Tosone [Episode 54]. Social Work Podcast [Audio podcast]. Retrieved from /search?q=psychoanalytic-treatment-in
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